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Re: Millsite scrapping - HRASA statements and letters
Posted: 17 Jun 2008, 05:52
by Nathan Berelowitz
Don't miss next weeks episode! Will Mark take a bow? Will Millsite Move? Will Wilf wave his wand! Stay tuned !
Re: Millsite scrapping - HRASA statements and letters
Posted: 17 Jun 2008, 08:53
by John Ashworth
More from the sar-L:
Mark Robinson wrote:When sending out 7 e-mails from our "draft" box , one got tagged for SAR List -
alas finger trouble meant the wrong one went. Not an apology, just an
explanation.
After reading the first three reactions to the inadvertent posting of the HRASA
reply in response to a letter to HRASA from Wilf Mole (hardly a "Confidential"
mail since it went to at least 53 people INCLUDING Transnet, please note, made
up of every HRASA member, 2 Transnet members and some 20 assorted other people)
I gave up and simply resorted to the Delete button.
Criticism we accept, constructive criticism we welcome, a request for
explanations we will accommodate, vicious and personal attacks we don't.
Thank you Mr. Invigilator, please de-register the CREA address;- those who are
prepared to work - or criticise - based on the above principals are welcome to
mail us direct and be included on a HRASA mail list for future up-dating.
Trevor, a personal note of thanks for your hard work on SAR list.
Bryan Brinkman wrote:Something that no-one seems to have noticed .
As a recipient of the original e-mail and in response to your e-mail I think
it necessary to advise that the original e-mail sent to Mark was also sent
directly to Transnet .
Re: Millsite scrapping - HRASA statements and letters
Posted: 17 Jun 2008, 13:58
by John Ashworth
The sar-L saga continues:
Les Pivnic wrote:I have had additional information sent to me off-line that has put a new
light onto the Mark Robinson, HRASA affair.
Urgent requests to corroborate the new information remain unanswered but
taking it at face value and as a gentleman of honour, I have to withdraw
my request to Mark Robinson to resign as Chairman of HRASA and I also
withdraw my remark that he has dragged the organisation into disrepute.
However, I make no apology for calling for his resignation initially as
it was based on facts at my disposal at that time. I also wish to state
that I am not taking sides in the Robinson - Mole squabble - in fact;
this is my last posting on this saga.
One thing that we can all learn from this unfortunate episode is that a
lack of communication can lead to unfortunate misconceptions. The lack
of information being circulated by those persons privy to such
information has caused a lot of discontent with the railway interest
fraternity on this SAR List. We are not dealing with State Secrets when
dealing with the future of the Museum's relics at Krugersdorp Loco and
elsewhere.
Les Pivnic
P S: Listees: please don't ask me to provide the new information to the
SAR List. The person who sent it to me is on this List and it is up to
him to make it public - he requested that it remain Private.
Re: Millsite scrapping - HRASA statements and letters
Posted: 17 Jun 2008, 14:01
by John Ashworth
Les Pivnic wrote:One thing that we can all learn from this unfortunate episode is that a
lack of communication can lead to unfortunate misconceptions. The lack
of information being circulated by those persons privy to such
information has caused a lot of discontent with the railway interest
fraternity on this SAR List. We are not dealing with State Secrets when
dealing with the future of the Museum's relics at Krugersdorp Loco and
elsewhere.
Les is so right on this count. The South African heritage rail community is extremely poor at communicating, both internally and externally. The Millsite saga may be the nadir, but lack of effective communication has been a problem for years.
Re: Millsite scrapping - HRASA statements and letters
Posted: 17 Jun 2008, 14:51
by Dylan Knott
I am not taking sides either, but agree with Les on this one.
Re: Millsite scrapping - HRASA statements and letters
Posted: 17 Jun 2008, 17:56
by John Ashworth
On the sar-L, Glen Landsberg wrote:Hi All
Like Les P, I have also received a flood of emails from various people
regarding Mark's very public indiscretion. I have read and replied to them
and I will respect their wishes and not publish them here.
Knowing more of the facts now and also noting Mark's "explanation" to the
list of what happened, I cannot help but wonder why a simple note
apologizing for the error was not posted. Instead we have a rather petulant
reply criticizing the list for reacting the way they did for his error and
like a scolded child resigning from the list. This is not the way a mature
person handles his position.
I have been criticize for my comments, based on the facts as they were at
the time when I called for Mark's resignation. If I have upset you Mark, I
apologize. The bottom line is that you accepted this position with the HRASA
and the responsibility that goes with it. By resigning from the list you are
just going to compound the problems that have been so rampant here of late.
I hope that you re-think your decision and remain.
Glen
Atlanta GA
USA
Re: Millsite scrapping - HRASA statements and letters
Posted: 01 Jul 2008, 14:06
by Paul Ash
Coming late to the dirty washing debate (I've been on a long road trip to look at our ailing branch lines), there are just two things to be said.
1. I am one of the many people on the e-mail list for communications from Mike Myers, SIA et al, and while I believe in open communication, some of the letters would best have remained confidential. So, in Mark's defence, all's fair in love and war.
2. Once again, I am grateful to no longer be part of the spite, vitriol, triggerfingeredness and looneytunes of the SAR-list.
Paul
Re: Millsite scrapping - HRASA statements and letters
Posted: 01 Jul 2008, 14:13
by John Ashworth
Well said, Paul.
As a matter of interest we have received many more letters from/about HRASA and SIA which have gone to a large but finite mailing list (presumably the list you're on!), and some with even more limited circulation which have gone to FOTR's own HRASA Director, but we have not posted any of those on the FOTR forum. We have only republished letters which are clearly intended to be public, or which have already appeared in the public domain on the sar-L or elsewhere.
Re: Millsite scrapping - HRASA statements and letters
Posted: 01 Jul 2008, 14:37
by Dylan Knott
What is the current status at Millsite?
Re: Millsite scrapping - HRASA statements and letters
Posted: 01 Jul 2008, 18:58
by Chris Janisch
The handover of assets from Transnet to HRASA proved to be more difficult than anticipated. At the moment the legal structures have been drawn up and await signature and possibly further minor alterations. Having been through the access agreement episode recently, I can only say that when the papers come through, they come through. There is no haste in Transnet. One good possible consequence of this is that the deadline to remove locos will have to be extended. There will also be more time for planning and fundraising. So at the moment there is an unofficial truce between the teams while we wait for the green light!
Re: Millsite scrapping - HRASA statements and letters
Posted: 01 Jul 2008, 19:36
by Nathan Berelowitz
Thanks for passing on that info to us. Nice to be kept on track. Thanks
Re: Millsite scrapping - HRASA statements and letters
Posted: 01 Jul 2008, 21:34
by Gabor Kovacs
I can only concur with Nathan, that info no matter how insignificant that is forth coming is always viewed in a positive light, and I hope our HRASA rep will have more good news shortly for us all.
I'm a little concerned that there has no official announcement been made as yet, on extending the deadline, which by the way is still the 25th July 08. Would it not be better for HRASA to start negotations, as another matter on its own, with TFR to extend the deadline now while we wait in anticipation, so there won't be a mad rush at the end of the current legal process, to have the deadline extended?
This can only facilitate a more detailed and structured plan to be completed on how Millsite locomotive assets are going to be relocated on a reasonable time scale, which both HRASA and TFR can agree upon. And yes certainly this extended deadline will certainly help with the much need fund-raising to move these assets, and if necessary manufacture spares that assist in moving the assets without causing undue harm to bearings and so forth.
Re: Millsite scrapping - HRASA statements and letters
Posted: 02 Jul 2008, 07:31
by Kevin Wilson-Smith
Gabor point about the call for HRASA to start negotiating with TRF makes sense to me as well! A good point!!
Re: Millsite scrapping - HRASA statements and letters
Posted: 24 Jul 2008, 16:55
by Gabor Kovacs
I hate having to write this reminder, but the gostly silence of recent weeks on both the Millsite and Humewood Road sagas, now begs yet another offical response and progress report from the HRASA Board of Directors, and I refer to point 5 of,
2008[1].05.25 HRASA - Members.doc and I quote;
1. Remove the above assets at no cost to Transnet, from the relevant premises namely Millsite and Humewood Station by midday, Friday, 27 June 2008.
We all are aware that this has turned into a lenghty process, but I think seeing that tomorrow is a "due date", probably many interested operators and individuals would like to get an up-date as to the progress on the transfer of the "National Collection" to HRASA, and what futher delays that may be expected or anticipated?
This kind request for an update on this current situation, is by no means intended to push "train wheels across the toes of HRASA Directors and or other board members"!
Thank you!
Re: Millsite scrapping - HRASA statements and letters
Posted: 24 Jul 2008, 18:40
by Kevin Wilson-Smith
Gabor -have you forwarded your comments direct to HRASA? Or a link to your post?