Wheel spin damage by E1331 OFS ???

[Kevin Wilson-Smith]

Steve Appleton has just said to me that the bogie is fixed but the the wheel sets move up and down vertically within the bogie. This could explain the single wheel damage, if say the motors kept running on the one wheel set, causing the wear and the single set to drop.

Comments?

[Tom Macrery]

I showed the photos to John Dadford. Here are his answers:
He was not aware of such an incident. He had also never seen rail-melt-down like this before. He guessed that it might take at least 3 minutes to produce such heat, depending on speed of the slip. He also could not explain why only one axle would slip, except that it was probably do to a fault somewhere in the works. He suggested that a driver might not be aware of the problem if the wheel-slip indicator was faulty and if the slipping unit was far enough away so that he could not hear, or identify, any sound it might have been making.

To move the unit after the incident, John suggested that jacking would not be necessary; he thought that if all the other axles on all the other units were working, it would then be possible to simply drive the offending wheels out of the depressions in the rails.

Neither Robert Dadford nor Cliff Petzer were aware of this incident nor had they ever heard of such an incident before.

Piet’s information was very interesting. I knew that the approximate maximum tractive force was 25% of the weight on the driving wheels. But I did not know that this could be increased by controlling the power to each traction motor. The increase up to 35%, or even to the theoretical maximum of 42%, seems amazing to me. And the term adhesion, rather than coefficient of static friction, seems logical as a rolling wheel over the rail is obviously not ‘static’. That ‘controlled slipping’ can further increase the traction seems even more amazing.

[PietConradie]

Tom and other Friends,

Thank you to all who commented on this, made inquiries, and reported back. I certainly learned a lot from this. I guess we now have reached the point where we'll have to let it rest for a while ...

I managed to work a bit back in the "forward chain", about 4 senders responded, but now it's all quiet. People may have deleted their mails already, and now not able to remember the sender ...

However, with all the present people in-the-know now, I am still hopeful that we might get more details later. Please post if you pick up anything.

Theoretically this incident may have happened in the Free State - the loco was stationed at Kroonstad in 2002 (John Middleton's loco guide). The photos show a section with double tracks - main line?.

[Kevin Wilson-Smith]

Well Piet, thank you also for posting this...........

It certainkly has been food for thought and has "entertained" me no end - and probably will continue to do so for some time!

I am going to make prints and in my future travels will talk to drivers etc. and get their input! Either way - if it's real it is interesting, and if it is not it is still interesting!

[Jerome West]

My 2c worth...

I asked Charlie from Train Operations and he says that he has seen it often especially at Tarlton. But not this bad. Normally it is about a inch deep. He says the driver must not have heard the slip.

[Rob Stanier]

I wouldn't say that it happens regularly, but every now and then!

Generally happens to trains where the locomotive has had two or more traction motors cut-out and the loading has been unaltered to reflect the sudden reduction of tractive effort. Most driver's will pick up on any wheel slip early enough to prevent damage from occurring to either the rails,wheels or traction motors.

I know of one train where both the driver and his assistant fell asleep, while the train was struggling up a grade. For some unknown reason, the VCS was cut-out. The loco came to a stand on the grade, but with wheels still spinning. The end result; 12 deep grooves worn through the rails similar to the ones depicted in the photos belonging to this thread. The Job Vacancy section of the Newspaper was required for the offending train crew after that incident!

[Kevin Wilson-Smith]

Thhanks Rob. I must admit I was very suspicious!

[Derek Walker]

I know of one train where both the driver and his assistant fell asleep, while the train was struggling up a grade.

I thought trains had measures in place that ensured a driver did not fall asleep in the first place. What happened to the dead mans handle??

[Rob Stanier]

I know of one train where both the driver and his assistant fell asleep, while the train was struggling up a grade.

I thought trains had measures in place that ensured a driver did not fall asleep in the first place. What happened to the dead mans handle??

The VCS, or Vigilance Control System, had been cut-out! A very big no no in the rail industry! Both crew members never set foot in the cab of a loco again after this incident!

[Tom Macrery]

It has occurred to me that the head of operations or the head of breakdown services in the Free State should certainly be aware of this incident. And some of us might know who these people are. Can they be contacted for details? On the other hand this might be something about which, in some quarters, the less said the better - read 'cover-up'.

[PietConradie]

Tom,

Yes, that is what I thought too ... we should not push too hard ... rather just be on the lookout.

However, this one is not necessarily a human problem, but may be a mechanical failure.

:)