Class 38 using overhead

Derek Walker · Post by **Derek Walker** » 10 May 2009, 17:41

I am not sure whether to add these into diesel or electric as they are diesels using electrics! Spotted on the line to Krugersdorp.

: class38.jpg (109.12 KiB) Viewed 6722 times

Stefan Andrzejewski · Post by **Stefan Andrzejewski** » 10 May 2009, 17:48

Definitely Electric at that stage. Its not often you see them . So Well done.

Andreas Umnus · Post by **Andreas Umnus** » 25 Oct 2009, 11:16

Hello,
This is my first post here and I hope that my English is good enough to be understand. I'm from Germany.

I took this photo of 38's using their electrics in 1995. I was on way with the "Trans-Karoo" from Jo'burg to Cape Town.

: 38 028 and two other engines passing the Trans Karoo

John Ashworth · Post by **John Ashworth** » 25 Oct 2009, 13:27

Welcome to the FOTR forum, Andreas. Thanks for this photo and the other one you posted. Your English is fine. Don't worry about it - we're an international forum and for many of our members English is not their first language.

Andreas Umnus · Post by **Andreas Umnus** » 25 Oct 2009, 17:59

Hello John,
Thank you for the welcome.

Kevin Wilson-Smith · Post by **Kevin Wilson-Smith** » 26 Oct 2009, 07:40

Welcome Andreas, and thank you for the picture.

Have you got oictures of German locos?
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Derek - I would say that the Electric Section is the correct place for these pics - the idea was that they would run in electric mode, and swop to diesel for sidings that were unelectrified.
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Here are a couple more pics for those who are interested. I took both pics on the same day in virtually the same spot with the locos coming from different directions with around a 10 minute difference. Which I thought was a bit unusual......!

http://www.friendsoftherail.com/phpBB2/ ... 144&t=1154

Ashley Peter · Post by **Ashley Peter** » 26 Oct 2009, 11:33

Kevin Wilson-Smith wrote:

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Derek - I would say that the Electric Section is the correct place for these pics - the idea was that they would run in electric mode, and swop to diesel for sidings that were unelectrified.
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Just a quick "tongue-in-cheek" passing comment - if they were designed to be for principly electric operation, wouldn't they rather have been classified as 13E, 15E or 18E - or whatever the next electric class that was open at the time of their introduction, instead of being given a diesel classification??

Kevin Wilson-Smith · Post by **Kevin Wilson-Smith** » 26 Oct 2009, 16:53

Ashley - what you said is actually pretty interesting! It is obvious now you mention it!

Buta re they "classed" right then?

Everything I have read say primarily electric, secondarily diesel - so why the Class 38 designation as you correctly point out?

Help - where are the experts when needed most????!!!!

Stefan Andrzejewski · Post by **Stefan Andrzejewski** » 26 Oct 2009, 17:07

They look like Diesels hence the Diesel numbered classification. (Class 36) A diesel with a Pantograph. Thats my assumption.

Luca Lategan · Post by **Luca Lategan** » 26 Oct 2009, 18:13

Lately, most 38's in the Gauteng area have been sent to Springs depot. The 'Spoories' always call them 'moffies' because they apparently don't know if they're diesel or electric. In recent days it looks like TFR is choosing for them, I see more and more 38's that pass without their pantograph equipment! Also, because of heavy container and other mine traffic from springs, they almost always run in pairs of four. I can count the amount of times that they have passed in electric mode on one hand.

A nice suprise the other day was to find that 38-020 has been painted in new TFR livery, very neat. Unfortunately I haven't seen it since.

Stefan Andrzejewski · Post by **Stefan Andrzejewski** » 26 Oct 2009, 19:26

Luca just to remind you that a pair is two not four! Any idea how many of these 38's are running at present. We don't seem to have any here in the WC. I always was lead to believe that the Electrical component was far more powerful than the Diesel, so why would they run on Diesel under wires? As far as I have read. Electric 1800kw and Diesel 600 kw. Can anyone correct me on this one.

Derek Walker · Post by **Derek Walker** » 26 Oct 2009, 19:35

Probably because eskom is supplying the electricity, its cheaper to buy diesel.
Just a thought, surely these are pure "diesel electric" in the true sense of the word?

John Ashworth · Post by **John Ashworth** » 27 Oct 2009, 06:05

surely these are pure "diesel electric"

My understanding is that "diesel electric" refers to a diesel engine generating power to run electric traction motors on the axles. You would also hear the terms diesel hydraulic (a diesel engine powering the axles via hydraulic drive) and diesel mechanical (a diesel engine powering the axles via a mechanical drive). In UK a loco which could run on both diesel and external electric power, such as the Class 73, is called an electro-diesel, I believe.

Ashley Peter · Post by **Ashley Peter** » 27 Oct 2009, 07:52

One of the RSSA Natal Branch members who used to be a driver at Umbilo, Danie Kruger, once told me that when the 38's were being used in twin pairs (i.e. sets of four) on the high-speed overnight container trains between Durban and the Reef (trains nos 5558/5559) they used to operate them in the electric mode but with the diesel engines running. I don't know if this was to give them an additional boost when climbing steep hills or just to speed up the changeover should the overhead power fail. Although I believe that they were rated at a maximum safe speed of 100km/h, they were apparently quite rough riding on the curvy Natal tracks and were eventually replaced by 10E's.

Whilst I was also under the impression that they have relatively weak diesel engines (supposedly primarily designed for shunting in isolated sidings), I have load tables that show them rated for exactly the same load for diesel or electric mode - and this is approximately equal in hauling power to a 6E1.

Aidan McCarthy · Post by **Aidan McCarthy** » 27 Oct 2009, 10:27

The diesel engines are fairly weak, but they have sophisticated electronic wheelslip and traction control systems to allow them to start heavy loads nad pull them at low speed out of non-electrified yards and sidings using the diesel engines. Once they are back under the wires they can draw power directly and pull the loads at normal line speeds. The drivers in Germiston were very impressed with their ability to start heavy loads when they were first introduced.

They were designed to replace steam locomotives on the Reef pickup work due to the number of non-electrified sidings preventing normal electrics from doing the work.

They seem to have been succesful as they are still in use over ten years later.

There were plans for a larger mainline version but nothing came of it. Might make sense today with the continous theft of overhead wires and other power disruptions, at least the train could clear section on diesel.

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